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Skeptikos Examiner
18-03-2008, 07:51 AM
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Leben

By David Preussen


Living things are born and they die, the time between birth and death we call life, a journey in the land of material existence, just a short trip compared to the age of the world around us. On the question “is there more?”, we have no certain answer, like a traveler who knows neither where he came from nor what his next destination might be we walk through the land of material existence for the time being that is given to us, the time before our visa runs out. And like a traveler trying to get the most out of his travel experience, we try to get the most out of our life, a meaningful experience, happiness, fun, and all those other things usually used in advertisement for travel locations and hotels is what we expect from live.

We know what we want, why than don’t we seem to get it? Why does modern life in many cases no longer provide enough nutrition for happiness and well being even thought we have so much more to our disposal than the people in the days of old? Why does more appear to lead to less? Why is it that modern life with with all the social security, all those things meant to secure us and our life, only seems to undermine our inner security while rendering life boring and in extension unpleasant? Why is it that our modern society in spite of all its material progress is increasingly less conducive to mental health? Do we really understand the nature of happiness and and well being and how those feelings arise? Is happiness, like the materialists believe, truly something that can be measures by things like per capita income? Why is it than that rich people appear to have much higher suicide rates than the poor? Is it simply to much “happiness” for them to handle, a rather strange assumption, or is it that “happiness” is something which can not be directly measured by material standards alone, and that sometimes, happiness and the material standard of living even stand in antagonism to each other?

Our whole modern society is build on the notion that rendering life more secure by taking care of anything for the individual leads to happiness, a better life, but is it not true that without light there could be no darkness, and that without life their could be no death? How than could it be possible for happiness to exist without misery, and for well being without suffering? Is it not the very existence of an opposing state which defines our understanding? And in extension, would that not mean that removing suffering would also remove well being, and that without danger and the chance of making mistakes there could be no sense of accomplishment?

Could it be, like the ancient believed, that man is truly such a foolish and cursed creature that he his forever bound to misery and suffering because this is the only way he can experience happiness and well being, the only way his life, his short trip in the land of material existence, appears worth living to him? Could it really be that without the existence of misery and suffering our journey would appear equally void of happiness and well being because we would not acknowledge those states as such?

It appears like this is the case, and that our modern society, with all those socialistic inventions meant to render life for the individual more easy and secure, and in extension, at least in theory, more happy and enjoyable, negates those very elements of existence which historically rendered life pleasant and worth living for the individual, and that instead of improving his condition, modern society has worsen it by making life a rather tasteless experience, that by providing a safe environment of plenty, modern society leads to a state of lethargic disgust and undermines the inner security and happiness in the individual. It’s a rather unpleasant assumption that would crash any hope for the possibility for an utopia, but it would explain those questions, and what otherwise appeared like contradictions, I pointed out before. It would explain why in some cases more appears to lead to less, why rich people are more likely to be unhappy and to commit suicide than the poor, why happiness and well being may not be measured accurately by things like per capita income, why our society is increasingly less conducive to mental health, and last but not least, why man seems to be bound to misery and suffering.

Plato once pointed out “that only the dead have seen the end of war”, it appears not just that he was right, but also that only the dead have seen the end of misery and suffering, that it is the destiny of our species to suffer, that we are indeed cursed creatures, or like the French thinker Proudhon put it; “ill done”.


Leben (http://metadave.wordpress.com/2008/03/17/leben/)

Milesian
18-03-2008, 10:38 AM
Plato once pointed out “that only the dead have seen the end of war”, it appears not just that he was right, but also that only the dead have seen the end of misery and suffering,


I would hate to think so, as that would be a source of great comfort to the wicked.

JSE
18-03-2008, 10:42 AM
only the dead have seen the end of warIs not from Plato but George Santayana. Nice expression all the same if we take 'end' in its ambiguity - as telos as well as termination. Thus death is the telos of war.

Skeptikos Examiner
18-03-2008, 08:59 PM
I would hate to think so, as that would be a source of great comfort to the wicked.

Has not our history demonstrated that to be right over and over again? I don't think that it's hopeless, but we would have to move on, to cease to be man and become something new, something more, in order to break out of our misery.




Is not from Plato but George Santayana. Nice expression all the same if we take 'end' in its ambiguity - as telos as well as termination. Thus death is the telos of war.

The German thinker Goethe once said that all wise things have been already said before and that one just has to repeat them, Plato definitely once said that and since he lived good 2 millenniums before George Santayana, it's only fair to attribute the quote to him!

JSE
18-03-2008, 09:22 PM
The German thinker Goethe once said that all wise things have been already said before and that one just has to repeat them, Plato definitely once said that and since he lived good 2 millenniums before George Santayana, it's only fair to attribute the quote to him!Problem is, no one can find this in Plato.

Skeptikos Examiner
18-03-2008, 11:19 PM
Problem is, no one can find this in Plato.


You are right it seems, after a little search I came across this:

Did Plato write "Only the dead have seen the end of war" ? (http://plato-dialogues.org/faq/faq008.htm)



"Since this quote appeared, attributed to Plato, at the beginning of Ridley Scott's 2001 movie "Black Hawk Down", several people have asked me the exact source of the quote in Plato's dialogues. Yet, I have been unable, to this day, to locate it in any one of them.

And I'm not the only one in that case ! One person who asked was Mr Michael Takiff, who had come up with the quote, attributed to Plato, in a letter from a soldier in Vietnam to his father while preparing a book called "Brave Men, Gentle Heroes: American Fathers and Sons in World War II and Vietnam", to be published by HarperCollins in 2003. I was unable to help him, but I later learned, in further exchanges I had with him by mail, that, with the help of friends and colleagues, he had come up with the following about the quote:

* No one he had been in touch with had been able to locate it in a dialogue of Plato.
* Yet, it can be found, attributed to Plato, in General Douglas MacArthur's farewell address to the cadets at West Point (May, 1962).
* Mr. Bernard Duffy, of California Polytechnic State University, coeditor of a book of MacArthur's speeches, had told him that the quote could be found on the web as a quote of George Santayana's, and further digging confirmed that it could be read in Santayana's "Soliloquies in England" (Scribners, 1924, p. 102), Soliloquy #25, "Tipperary", in a section which reads: "Yet the poor fellows think they are safe! They think that the war is over! Only the dead have seen the end of war." Santayana does not attributes the saying to Plato, or anybody else for that matter (1).
* It shows up, again attributed to Plato, on the wall of the Imperial War Museum in London.

In short, the attribution of this quote to Plato remains most questionable, while its appearence in works by George Santayana is a fact, and the possibility that the source of its misattribution to Plato be General McArthur is quite real, though not proven."

Anto
02-04-2008, 10:05 PM
Living things are born and they die,

Living things Live eternally.

That which is Alive is Alive, that which is Dead is Dead.


On the question “is there more?”, we have no certain answer

Eternal Life in the Infinite Love of God.


And like a traveler trying to get the most out of his travel experience, we try to get the most out of our life, a meaningful experience, happiness, fun, and all those other things usually used in advertisement for travel locations and hotels is what we expect from live.

That is the Demon of Faithlessness which has taken hold in this Fourth Reich.


Why does modern life in many cases no longer provide enough nutrition for happiness and well being even thought we have so much more to our disposal than the people in the days of old? Why does more appear to lead to less? Why is it that modern life with with all the social security, all those things meant to secure us and our life, only seems to undermine our inner security while rendering life boring and in extension unpleasant? Why is it that our modern society in spite of all its material progress is increasingly less conducive to mental health?

Because you have no Faith.


that it is the destiny of our species to suffer, that we are indeed cursed creatures

Well, you Faithless ones are cursed.