Ryder Cup

[Aughrim 1691]

I have no time for this overhyped hoopla for corporate Ireland and if it pisses rain from now until Sunday then so much the better. Our gombeen politicians have been preening themselves for ages in the hope that some glory might be reflected upon them by a grateful Irish public, I hope not. It's Zog v. Bog. This is one national sporting occasion best left to Sky.

[West]

I have no time for this overhyped hoopla for corporate Ireland and if it pisses rain from now until Sunday then so much the better. Our gombeen politicians have been preening themselves for ages in the hope that some glory might be reflected upon them by a grateful Irish public, I hope not. It's Zog v. Bog. This is one national sporting occasion best left to Sky.
The government are subsidising this to the tune of 4 million. Seems appropriate somehow given that much of our country was given away on the golf courses throughout the decades by our conniving politico's..

It's tedious crap anyway. Only Tim Henham supporters are a lower order of life than Tiger supporters. Tiger takes a swing. The ball vanishes. Camera swerves left to right inducing seasickness. Eventually camera spots a flick near the flag & starts all over again. Unwatchable.

[Tigernmas]

I have no time for this overhyped hoopla for corporate Ireland and if it pisses rain from now until Sunday then so much the better.

Same here. I'd be only delighted if the rich bastards were struck by lightning as they teed off.

[The Seamus]

Same here. I'd be only delighted if the rich bastards were struck by lightning as they teed off.

Or got beating to a bloody pulp by Cro Cop. A Pride Fighting/Golf hybrid, now that would be something to watch!

[JSE]

Same here. I'd be only delighted if the rich bastards were struck by lightning as they teed off.Now that would be something.

[Kirllan]

Golf is a sport for the politicians and businessman who plan deceitful policies and make business deals to strip the globe of more precious resources. It may be a bad character trait on my part, but if a man can play golf but can't arm wrestle well I just don't trust the man myself. I heard that some dingleberries are setting up golf courses in Ireland recently, I hope they all get hit by lightning. I have seen more stupid golf courses pop up all over Arizona in the past 5 years it is making me sick. I loved to watch Bill Murray in 'Caddy Shack' make golfing look fun, but the politicians and the idiocrats in my area use them to make bad business deals and create socialists agendas in the political areana. I pray Ireland never has to become just one big 'green' golf course.

[Tigernmas]

The amount of land these golf clubs take up so the richboys and big dicks in government can stroll around dressed like arses and plot our demise is unbelievable. How many schools, hospitals, national parks for the people to enjoy could be there instead?
The government are shelling out €4million so Tiger Woods and the rest of his millionare club can whack a few balls around while the ordinary Irishman watches from the sidelines kneedeep in mud, rain lashing against his face, knowing full well he will never be allowed to play on the course himself and yet he's still delighted with the whole thing, it's shocking.

[The Seamus]

I loved to watch Bill Murray in 'Caddy Shack' make golfing look fun, but the politicians and the idiocrats in my area use them to make bad business deals and create socialists agendas in the political areana. I pray Ireland never has to become just one big 'green' golf course.

Remmeber he blows up the golf course, and the movie makes fun of Irish Catholics.

[The Dagda]

I detest golf, it's a game for old men and lesbians.

[just a lurker]

The amount of land these golf clubs take up so the richboys and big dicks in government can stroll around dressed like arses and plot our demise is unbelievable. How many schools, hospitals, national parks for the people to enjoy could be there instead?
Oh come off it Tigernmas. I think that's a bit unreasonable. The majority of Golf courses tend to be built in scenic areas (and the very fact that Golf Courses are scenic themselves means that they stay as scenic areas) that would otherwise be re-zoned to have some D4's Holiday Mansion plonked into it (and it wouldn't serve the interests of the nation to start throwing schools and hospitals into less accessable areas either).

[Tigernmas]

Oh come off it Tigernmas. I think that's a bit unreasonable. The majority of Golf courses tend to be built in scenic areas (and the very fact that Golf Courses are scenic themselves means that they stay as scenic areas) that would otherwise be re-zoned to have some D4's Holiday Mansion plonked into it (and it wouldn't serve the interests of the nation to start throwing schools and hospitals into less accessable areas either).

Why should our own land be off limits to the majority of us though? I don't give a fiddler's fart how scenic golf courses are, having hundreds of acres of good land put aside so some big dicks can whack balls around on it at the weekends is a waste of land that could be better used for farming to create some money for the nation. What are you saying, it's either have a golf course for the businessmen and politicians to swan about on like a Polish delicacy or have their holiday homes there, we shouldn't have to put up with either.

[JSE]

Oh come off it Tigernmas. I think that's a bit unreasonable. The majority of Golf courses tend to be built in scenic areas (and the very fact that Golf Courses are scenic themselves means that they stay as scenic areas) that would otherwise be re-zoned to have some D4's Holiday Mansion plonked into it (and it wouldn't serve the interests of the nation to start throwing schools and hospitals into less accessable areas either).I wouldn't take this too literally. The golf thing is more symbolic here, like fox hunting in England. The real agenda behind the anti-fox hunting movement is not love of foxes but hatred of the class that indulges in it. Similarly here, when people give out about golf its not so much the game as such but the what it means - privilege, rich boys club, dirty deals between holes, and all the rest of it.

[just a lurker]

Why should our own land be off limits to the majority of us though?
That's called Land Ownership and Private Property. Do you think a farmer would be content letting you prance up and down his pastures at your please?


I don't give a fiddler's fart how scenic golf courses are
I think there are plenty who would disagree with you on that.


having hundreds of acres of good land put aside
Not all Golf Courses are built on "good land". In fact, the kind of drainage schemes put in place to maintain Golf Courses usually improves the land itself.


so some big dicks can whack balls around on it at the weekends
If only that was all they did on them :(


is a waste of land
Is all recreational land a waste? Is St. Stephen's Green or St. Anne's Park a waste too? Should we be farming them as well?


that could be better used for farming to create some money for the nation.
Aw, you had to go a bring money into it.


What are you saying, it's either have a golf course for the businessmen and politicians to swan about on like a Polish delicacy or have their holiday homes there, we shouldn't have to put up with either.
Well that's back to the issue of Land Ownership, Private Property, Free Sale, Re-Zoning etc.

Tigernmas, I don't necessarily have anything against you. I'd hate for these replies to get personal. I'd be content to leave it at this. I just think that criticising them because of their size or whatever is missing the mark.


I wouldn't take this too literally. The golf thing is more symbolic here, like fox hunting in England. The real agenda behind the anti-fox hunting movement is not love of foxes but hatred of the class that indulges in it. Similarly here, when people give out about golf its not so much the game as such but the what it means - privilege, rich boys club, dirty deals between holes, and all the rest of it.
I fully appreciate that. I never criticised Tigernmas's earlier post about "the rich bastards" being "struck by lightning". I never disagreed with the posts of Aughrim 1691, Don Bernardo O'Higgins, Santiago de Sacramento, Kirllan, An Daghdha, or yourself. It's just this one about "taking up land" that seems out of place.

[JSE]

That's called Land Ownership and Private Property. Do you think a farmer would be content letting you prance up and down his pastures at your please?That touches on another problem here which is the right of way question (another topic), the most restricted in Europe.

I think there are plenty who would disagree with you on that.And plenty who would agree.

Is all recreational land a waste? Is St. Stephen's Green or St. Anne's Park a waste too? The big difference is that these are public places, golf courses are private. Have you not noticed there has been a general assault on public space these last years?

Aw, you had to go a bring money into it.Golf courses make lots of money for private interests, Tig is suggesting that land could be used for public benefit.

Well that's back to the issue of Land Ownership, Private Property, Free Sale, Re-Zoning etc.You do realise you have just named the filthiest areas of Irish life, the epicentre of corruption?

I fully appreciate that. I never criticised Tigernmas's earlier post about "the rich bastards" being "struck by lightning". I never disagreed with the posts of Aughrim 1691, Don Bernardo O'Higgins, Santiago de Sacramento, Kirllan, An Daghdha, or yourself. It's just this one about "taking up land" that seems out of place.In one sense they are taking up land. Let's return to the context - the monstrosity that is the K Club event, which I understand the tax payer will be contributing to. That fact alone rather undermines your point about private property, don't you think?


btw, I actually like playing the game. I have only ever played in public facilities and find it to be a perfect game for someone of my temperament, Kendo is the other. I find the two are quite similar at a deeper level. But I hate the associations the game has, the kind of things we have been complaining about here.

[Old Believer]

All Golfers can kiss my arse, I used to enjoy walking the 'Old Head Of Kinsale', now I can't walk there anymore because it's a golf club.... A perfect landscape ruined by a bunch of wankers who call a couple of hours walking a "sport".

[The Seamus]

btw, I actually like playing the game. I have only ever played in public facilities and find it to be a perfect game for someone of my temperament, Kendo is the other. I find the two are quite similar at a deeper level. But I hate the associations the game has, the kind of things we have been complaining about here.

Somebody pour this man an Irish Car Bomb, pull out the collander, warn the Gardai, we need to get him back into drinking and fighting bouncers!

Next he'll be telling us he likes to play Bocce Ball!

[Geist]

Thread moral: Golf is the devil!

[just a lurker]

That touches on another problem here which is the right of way question (another topic), the most restricted in Europe.
As you've said - another topic.


The big difference is that these are public places, golf courses are private. Have you not noticed there has been a general assault on public space these last years?
Yes.


Golf courses make lots of money for private interests, Tig is suggesting that land could be used for public benefit.
I have no problem with them being changed for "Public Benefit". But the "Public Benefit" which we mentioned was purely materialistic, which disheartens me. Everything is brought down to it's economic value. Take that Falls Road Gaeltacht for example. Masky was going on about how the "Gaelic Quarter" would lead to an increase in revenue from the Tourism industry. Could he not have just said that it was good for the sake of being a Gaeltacht? When Tig brought money into the equation I felt a bit disapointed. This Forum should [aspire to] be above that.


You do realise you have just named the filthiest areas of Irish life, the epicentre of corruption?
You do realise that I wasn't referring to them in a positive light?


Let's return to the context -
The context? That's shifting the Goal posts. I as I've mentioned, I don't have a problem with people bashing the Ryder Cup and the dirty deals that Golf is associated with (the context). I was pointing out a specific criticism which I felt was/feel is out of place.


That fact alone rather undermines your point about private property, don't you think?
Correct me if I'm wrong here - Are you saying that because the Tax payer is contributing to the event, then the Tax payer has a right to show up?


btw, I actually like playing the game.
I really don't (then again I haven't ever done much of it).


Kendo is the other.
I can't say I've ever played/done it.

[JSE]

I have no problem with them being changed for "Public Benefit". But the "Public Benefit" which we mentioned was purely materialistic, which disheartens me. Everything is brought down to it's economic value. Take that Falls Road Gaeltacht for example. Masky was going on about how the "Gaelic Quarter" would lead to an increase in revenue from the Tourism industry. Could he not have just said that it was good for the sake of being a Gaeltacht? When Tig brought money into the equation I felt a bit disapointed. This Forum should [aspire to] be above that.I'm not sure he was doing what you suggest. I think the gist of what he was saying was something like this: if this land is to be used for economic projects, let it be for the common good rather than for private profit. For example, local governments run pitch and putt courses, these charge an admission, but it is minimal. The monies raised pay for the up-keep and the wages of those involved. I am quite happy to pay such fees for such services and don't see this as somehow bringing "money into the equation."

You do realise that I wasn't referring to them in a positive light?
Well then you were just stating the obvious which is unnecessary. Why tell us that private property exists?

The context? That's shifting the Goal posts. I as I've mentioned, I don't have a problem with people bashing the Ryder Cup and the dirty deals that Golf is associated with (the context). I was pointing out a specific criticism which I felt was/feel is out of place.


Correct me if I'm wrong here - Are you saying that because the Tax payer is contributing to the event, then the Tax payer has a right to show up?The context is important - golf is a game for the well-off. Golf courses are places where a lot of decisions are made, deals cut, influence extended and so on. Golf symbolises much that people on this board find objectionable in this country. Thsi is the context within which Tig's comments should be understood. But when you remind us of the obvious; that these places are private property etc, what are we supposed to understand from that? Is this some kind of objection to our various condemnations of this gross event, or what?
That tax-payers money is going into fueling this highly exclusive event is just another case in point about the true nature of things in this country. We here make no apologies for drawing attention to these things.

***
Post 5000

[just a lurker]

I'm not sure he was doing what you suggest.
Maybe he'll clear it up for us.


I think the gist of what he was saying was something like this: if this land is to be used for economic projects, let it be for the common good rather than for private profit.
If that' what he was implying, then I have no problem with it (but that's not the impression I got).


Well then you were just stating the obvious which is unnecessary. Why tell us that private property exists?
Well "Why should our own land be off limits to the majority of us though?" seemed like a fairly simple question to me - requiring a simple answer.


Golf courses are places where a lot of decisions are made, deals cut, influence extended and so on. Golf symbolises much that people on this board find objectionable in this country. Thsi is the context within which Tig's comments should be understood.
As I've mentioned, that is the context in which I took Tigernmas's 1st comment (about bastards being stuck by lightening). It's this stuff about the size of Golf courses (a second comment, to be distinguished from the first) that I find out of place.


Is this some kind of objection to our various condemnations of this gross event, or what?
If I had any objections to the various condemnations (other than the issue of size) I would have had no porblem in posting them.


That tax-payers money is going into fueling this highly exclusive event is just another case in point about the true nature of things in this country.
Is that a statement of the obvious on your behalf? :p J/K


Post 5000
Comhgairdeas.

[Tigernmas]

My view is pretty simple, the land that the K Club is on could be better used for growing food for Irish people instead of importing foreign crap and lining the pockets of some rich famer overseas than being a big playgroud for the rich and famous. If I'm helping to fund this bloody thing then I should have been able to turn up at any point and walk around and score a few hole in one's whenever I felt like it. Not a chance of it though, the ordinary Irishman who funded this thing were kept well away by Gardai who should have been protecting our communities instead of foreign millionares, God forbid we might upset poor Tiger or put him off his game.

[West]

I was in Kildare this morning & all there was was complete ambivalence. The gombeens have out gombeened themselves this time. The people aren't even being thrown them their usual bone with it being on exclusive Sky & not the Irish broadcaster let alone trump up the Kings ransom to get in. Fleets off helicopters carting Bertie Bassets chums flew overhead all the way home & well into the evening..

[just a lurker]

My view is pretty simple, the land that the K Club is on could be better used for growing food for Irish people
Anywhere else?


If I'm helping to fund this bloody thing then I should have been able to turn up at any point and walk around and score a few hole in one's whenever I felt like it.
I think that's a bit unreasonable too. Your taxes go into all sorts of things that you still have to pay admission fees for (JSE mentioned the local authority pitch and put courses as an example).

[JSE]

I think that's a bit unreasonable too. Your taxes go into all sorts of things that you still have to pay admission fees for (JSE mentioned the local authority pitch and put courses as an example).This is ridiculous, how can you compare the K Club with a Corpo P+P course?

[just a lurker]

This is ridiculous, how can you compare the K Club with a Corpo P+P course?
We pay taxes for both.


If I'm helping to fund this bloody thing then I should have been able to turn up at any point and walk around and score a few hole in one's whenever I felt like it.

[Tigernmas]

Anywhere else?
How about Áras an Uachtaráin? Kick that idle west brit out on her arse and put the place to some use.


I think that's a bit unreasonable too. Your taxes go into all sorts of things that you still have to pay admission fees for (JSE mentioned the local authority pitch and put courses as an example).

I don't think it's unreasonable at all. If the government are going to rob money off me that I've worked hard for then it's my right to enjoy what they waste it on.

[JSE]

We pay taxes for both.One is open to all the other is restricted to the rich. One is public property the other is private. Now, how can you compare these two in the way that you did?

[JSE]

I don't think it's unreasonable at all. If the government are going to rob money off me that I've worked hard for then it's my right to enjoy what they waste it on.Surely hosiptals, schools, public P+P courses and the like are not a waste? I'm sure you more mean the use of public money for private benefit, a growing trend in this country.

[just a lurker]

How about Áras an Uachtaráin? Kick that idle west brit out on her arse and put the place to some use.
That's not really what I'm getting at.


I don't think it's unreasonable at all. If the government are going to rob money off me that I've worked hard for then it's my right to enjoy what they waste it on.
Well now you're calling into question whether there should be a system of taxation at all. Are you an Anarchist by any chance?

[just a lurker]

One is open to all the other is restricted to the rich.
I thought you had to pay money to get onto those Pitch and Put courses as well, no?

edited: I reread your post. Yes, you do have to pay to use the Pitch and Putt courses, in which case, the difference between the P+P courses and the K Club is the just the Cost.

[JSE]

I thought you had to pay money to get onto those Pitch and Put courses as well, no?

edited: I reread your post. Yes, you do have to pay to use the Pitch and Putt courses, in which case, the difference between the P+P courses and the K Club is the just the Cost.The difference is as follows:

P+P = Public property open to all. Price to cover upkeep etc.
K Club = Private property restricted to the rich. Price to create profit.

I can't believe you are having difficulties following this.

[Tigernmas]

Surely hosiptals, schools, public P+P courses and the like are not a waste? I'm sure you more mean the use of public money for private benefit, a growing trend in this country.

Yes that's what I mean. I have no problem with my taxes being spent on things that benefit Irish people, the community, the nation.


Well now you're calling into question whether there should be a system of taxation at all. Are you an Anarchist by any chance?

No I'm not a bloody anarchist. Although I think 'anarchy' would sum up the present state of the country quite well.
I have no problem in paying taxes if it used for the good of my people, Irish people, as a whole. What I have a problem with is when I work my arse off all week so the government can get money out of me to squander on things like the Ryder Cup, foreign aid, millenium candles, asylum seekers and the like.
The people who support the current system, the FF'ers, the FG'ers, PD's, Labour etc. are the only real anarchists in this country.

[JSE]

I have no problem in paying taxes if it used for the good of my people, Irish people, as a whole. What I have a problem with is when I work my arse off all week so the government can get money out of me to squander on things like the Ryder Cup, foreign aid, millenium candles, asylum seekers and the like.Lol! I'd forgotten about those. I remember at the time thinking that the next politican who calls to the door will have to have an emergency operation for the removal of a Millenium Candle from you know where.

The people who support the current system, the FF'ers, the FG'ers, PD's, Labour etc. are the only real anarchists in this country.That's a very interesting point (I strongly agree) which I'd like to return to soon.

[Tigernmas]

Lol! I'd forgotten about those. I remember at the time thinking that the next politican who calls to the door will have to have an emergency operation for the removal of a Millenium Candle from you know where.

The whole thing was absolutely pathetic. I'm sure my mum still has our one tucked away somewhere I'll try and dig it out, I'll throw it on a bonfire with other pathetic, 'brilliantly shit' things that I have picked up over the years. Like a postcard I bought at an airport in England, it's just a big cut out of Prince Charles head, how tacky is that, I bought it, looked at it and laughed for about 10minutes straight.

[just a lurker]

The difference is as follows:

P+P = Public property open to all. Price to cover upkeep etc.
K Club = Private property restricted to the rich. Price to create profit.

I can't believe you are having difficulties following this.
Duely noted. I was looking at it from the POV of the customer rather than the owner.

[just a lurker]

No I'm not a bloody anarchist.
Good for you (good for all of us!).


Although I think 'anarchy' would sum up the present state of the country quite well.
I would have said it was becoming more totalitarian as time goes by myself actually.


I have no problem in paying taxes if it used for the good of my people, Irish people, as a whole. What I have a problem with is when I work my arse off all week so the government can get money out of me to squander on things like the Ryder Cup, foreign aid, millenium candles, asylum seekers and the like.
I have no problems with this statement what so ever.

[JSE]

Duely noted. I was looking at it from the POV of the customer rather than the owner.Even then I can't see the problem. The P+P is open to all, the K Cub is open only to the rich. All can be a customer of one but only a small minority can be a customer of the other.

[West]

I would have said it was becoming more totalitarian as time goes by myself actually.
I think the general pattern is totalitarianism if it involves areas where money can be made but outside of that remit, society is falling into an anarchy especially where law & order is concerned as well as drawing in countless of strangers from far flung foreign parts...

[just a lurker]

Even then I can't see the problem. The P+P is open to all, the K Cub is open only to the rich.
Because this brings relativity into the question. They're still part of the same system. I doesn't make a difference to a down-and-out whether he wants to get into the K Club or the P+P.

[JSE]

Because this brings relativity into the question. How so?
They're still part of the same system. I doesn't make a difference to a down-and-out whether he wants to get into the K Club or the P+P.Why do you keep bringing in new conditions? Stick to the point. We are talking about the difference between private property and public property, and the abuse of public money for private gain. The economic situation of a down and out is has no bearing on this whatsoever. As a rational person he would agree with the distinction drawn.

[just a lurker]

How so?
Because, as a customer, the two are the same apart from the price.


Why do you keep bringing in new conditions? Stick to the point.
:rofl Tigernmas's comment about Golf Courses being "too big" is out of place.

[JSE]

Because, as a customer, the two are the same apart from the price.No they are not and that doesn't explain what you meant by relativism. One belongs to the customer qua citizen, the other does not. The citizen customer may avail of the P+P course, he may not avail of the K Club unless he is rich and vouched for by other rich men.

[just a lurker]

No they are not and that doesn't explain what you meant by relativism.
The difference in price. Rich and Poor are relative.


One belongs to the customer qua citizen, the other does not. The citizen customer may avail of the P+P course, he may not avail of the K Club unless he is rich and vouched for by other rich men.
This is based on one's income - whether one is rich or poor.

[JSE]

The difference in price. Rich and Poor are relative.No, its not just a difference in price. The P+P belongs to the public, the K Club does not. The complaint in this thread is that public money is being used to support a private affair. Why do keep diverting away from that?

This is based on one's income - whether one is rich or poor.You're stating the obvious again . . .

[just a lurker]

The P+P belongs to the public, the K Club does not.
In what meaningful ways?


The complaint in this thread is that public money is being used to support a private affair. Why do keep diverting away from that?
Because I have no problem with that. It's not up for discussion. My only issue was with Tig's comment about size.


You're stating the obvious again . . .
I thought it would be rude not to type something.

[JSE]

In what meaningful ways?You don't understand the difference between private property and public?

[just a lurker]

You don't understand the difference between private property and public?
Well there's a difference between the other examples I gave (St. Stephen's Green and St. Anne's Park) where you can just walk in. But in the case of the K Club and the P+P there isn't much difference for the customer other than the price of getting in.

[JSE]

Well there's a difference between the other examples I gave (St. Stephen's Green and St. Anne's Park) where you can just walk in. But in the case of the K Club and the P+P there isn't much difference for the customer other than the price of getting in.We have gone over this I don't know how many times now. There is a huge difference. The publicly owned P+P charges a very small amount for the upkeep etc, the privately owned K Club charges a huge whack for the purpose of profit and maintaining exclusivity. One is for the benefit of the general public the other is for the benefit of a tiny minority. I am happy to support things like the local P+P or the hospitals, schools etc out of taxation and small user fees, but I am furious to learn that tax money goes to funding something like the K Club event. I cannot believe that you do not get this. All I can say to you is; when in a hole, stop digging.

[just a lurker]

The publicly owned P+P charges a very small amount for the upkeep etc, the privately owned K Club charges a huge whack for the purpose of profit and maintaining exclusivity.
As for "publicly owned" and "privately owned" - this is a point that came up already that we agreed on.

As for "small amount for the upkeep" and "huge whack" - these are still relative.

[The Chauvinist]

If theres anything worse than the scum on the K pitch, its the bourgeoisie scum which aspires to them. In denial or otherwise.

[just a lurker]

If theres anything worse than the scum on the K pitch, its the . . .
. . . Begrudgers :P J/K

[Kirllan]

From the original thread comment -if it pisses rain from now until Sunday I was waiting to see that forecasts, apparently not going to happen. I could just see an RTE newscaster -"And now for the forecast, it will be pissing rain for the next week on all golf courses". :P

[JSE]

As for "publicly owned" and "privately owned" - this is a point that came up already that we agreed on.If that were so why did you ask this question: "In what meaningful ways?"

As for "small amount for the upkeep" and "huge whack" - these are still relative.No they are not, they are substantially diffferent. You are getting hung up on the superficial question of admission charges. The discussion is centred on the substantial difference between private and public property.

If I didn't know you better, I would think you were trolling.

[just a lurker]

If that were so why did you ask this question: "In what meaningful ways?"
Because I wanted to know whether or not you thought there were any other "meaningful" differences.


No they are not, they are substantially diffferent. You are getting hung up on the superficial question of admission charges. The discussion is centred on the substantial difference between private and public property.
Is it though? I already posted that I acknowledged the difference between the ownership. Then I stated that I has been looking at it from the POV of the customer - what you seem to be calling the "superficial question of admission" - Which was why I didn't see the difference from the start. Then you went on to say that I couldn't make this comparison either (I'll see if I can get the relevant quotes, give me a tick after I post this, then I'll edit it).

Edited:
Post 35:
I was looking at it from the POV of the customer rather than the owner. – JAL

Post 37:
Even then I can't see the problem. The P+P is open to all, the K Cub is open only to the rich. - JSE

^At this point I took it that we were finished talking about Public/Private etc and were just onto prices, the relativity of the terms "rich" and "poor" and the "superficial question of admission".


If I didn't know you better, I would think you were trolling.
I'm replying because 1) It would be rude for me to just stop replying to the posts that you go to the bother of typing 2) Posts with you tend to have the potential to develop into very interesting discussions. But you'd be right if you're suggesting that my enthousiasm for discussing P+P and K Club is nonexistant - all I was doing in the first place was taking issue with a question about size.

[JSE]

Because I wanted to know whether or not you thought there were any other "meaningful" differences.We had already discussed that ad nauseum.

I'm replying because 1) It would be rude for me to just stop replying to the posts that you go to the bother of typing Sometimes silence is the best reply. I think we have exhausted this topic, long ago.

[just a lurker]

We had already discussed that ad nauseum.
But there was the possibility that there was still more.


Sometimes silence is the best reply. I think we have exhausted this topic, long ago.
There is still the Free will thread to go ahead with I suppose.