Germanys National debt.

[The Chauvinist]

I've recently been told Germanys National debt stands somewhere near one and a half trillion Euro. Can anyone confirm the accuracy of this?

[Liam Ó Loinsigh]

Wow, all that guilt money...

[West]

If we took a leaf out of their book, imagine how much we could get out of the Brits were the atrocities really did happen..

That said I think the rule is that you pay restitution for fairytale crimes, only; real ones don't count.

[The Chauvinist]

http://www.dw-world.de/image/0,,1237923_4,00.jpg

The 'debt clock'. I've been looking into this and it stands now roughly at 1.43, this picture was taken in 2004 i think. The last digits on the clock are increasing so fast, that they cannot be seen by the naked eye.

[na Gaeil is gile]

I've recently been told Germanys National debt stands somewhere near one and a half trillion Euro. Can anyone confirm the accuracy of this?
http://www.steuerzahler.de/webcom/show_softlink.php/_c-33/i.html
See the ticker at the top entitled "STAATSVERSCHULDUNG IN DEUTSCHLAND".


Wow, all that guilt money...
"Wow, all that socialism" is nearer the truth. An average 35 hour work week, massive social service spending and the cost of reintegrating an East Germany gutted by Soviet policy must all be paid for somehow. In contrast Shylock's pound of flesh is an utterly trivial economic burden.

In anycase reparations to anyone incarcerated in a forced labour camp during WWII are perfectly reasonable. Let's not lose sight of the fact that the Third Reich commited many real crimes against European Jewry.

[West]

I know! Think of all that lost extortion money that could've been made inbetween '33-'39.

And there's the cost incurred of slaughtering innocent Germans en-mass; the anguish suffered by the plutocrats sitting on the raw material board; costs incurred to stage the Holohaox fiction; travel expenses; death's of non-existant people..etc, etc

[JSE]

In anycase reparations to anyone incarcerated in a forced labour camp during WWII are perfectly reasonable. Let's not lose sight of the fact that the Third Reich commited many real crimes against European Jewry.For example?

[na Gaeil is gile]

For example?
In the main confiscation of property, interment in facilities not fit to house a battery hen and forced labour. In many ways I’m inclined to agree with the ‘professional Jews’ when they state holocaust revisionism is simply a front for neo-Nazism. It’s difficult to accept the claims of revisionism’s fanbase to academic integrity considering their often vitriolic derision of any and all claims to Jewish suffering. Of course Jews suffered injustice during World War II - everyone did.

Just so you know where I stand I’d like to take this opportunity to go on record and state that I find this forum’s general obsession with Semites creepy. It’s reminiscent of Sinn Fein’s fetish for the ANC. In an Irish nationalist context Jewish cultural arrogance isn’t worth expending any more energy that a flick of two fingers in their general direction and Arabs have nothing - nothing - whatsoever to do with us.

[Old Believer]

In the main confiscation of property, interment in facilities not fit to house a battery hen and forced labour. In many ways I’m inclined to agree with the ‘professional Jews’ when they state holocaust revisionism is simply a front for neo-Nazism. It’s difficult to accept the claims of revisionism’s fanbase to academic integrity considering their often vitriolic derision of any and all claims to Jewish suffering. Of course Jews suffered injustice during World War II - everyone did.

Just so you know where I stand I’d like to take this opportunity to go on record and state that I find this forum’s general obsession with Semites creepy. It’s reminiscent of Sinn Fein’s fetish for the ANC. In an Irish nationalist context Jewish cultural arrogance isn’t worth expending any more energy that a flick of two fingers in their general direction and Arabs have nothing - nothing - whatsoever to do with us.

I can't think of one fault in that post...

[JSE]

In the main confiscation of property, interment in facilities not fit to house a battery hen and forced labour. In many ways I’m inclined to agree with the ‘professional Jews’ when they state holocaust revisionism is simply a front for neo-Nazism.You are in danger of contradiction here. They claim that Revisionists deny the existence of homocidal gas chambers. You deny homocidal gas chambers and therefore according to the Jews you are a Neonazi antisemite denier.
Also, factual claims should be supported with facts. I don't see any in your response.

It’s difficult to accept the claims of revisionism’s fanbase to academic integrity considering their often vitriolic derision of any and all claims to Jewish suffering.Try and back this statement up. There is not one Revisionist historian who denies that Jews suffered and I defy you to produce a single one.
Of course Jews suffered injustice during World War II - everyone did. Which is precisely the point Revisionism is tireless in making. So enough strawman arguments. The point is why are we forced to believe in the existence of gas chambers and the 6 million?

Just so you know where I stand I’d like to take this opportunity to go on record and state that I find this forum’s general obsession with Semites creepy. It’s reminiscent of Sinn Fein’s fetish for the ANC. In an Irish nationalist context Jewish cultural arrogance isn’t worth expending any more energy that a flick of two fingers in their general direction and Arabs have nothing - nothing - whatsoever to do with us.I don't know how many times I have said it but I will repeat it. Here is one example - just one - example of why organised Jewry/Zionism is of concern to us - most of what is called "popular culture" comes from an industry that is demonstrably under the control of the Jews. Most of what is seen on cinemas, TV or pop music (MTV etc) convey's ideas and attitudes approved by Jews. What they disapprove of never makes the screen. Need I spell out the social and political significance of who controls the media? I hope not . . .

[JSE]

I can't think of one fault in that post...Or perhaps you don't want to?

[West]

You are in danger of contradiction here. They claim that Revisionists deny the existence of homocidal gas chambers. You deny homocidal gas chambers and therefore according to the Jews you are a Neonazi antisemite denier.
Also, factual claims should be supported with facts. I don't see any in your response.
Try and back this statement up. There is not one Revisionist historian who denies that Jews suffered and I defy you to produce a single one.Which is precisely the point Revisionism is tireless in making. So enough strawman arguments. The point is why are we forced to believe in the existence of gas chambers and the 6 million?
I don't know how many times I have said it but I will repeat it. Here is one example - just one - example of why organised Jewry/Zionism is of concern to us - most of what is called "popular culture" comes from an industry that is demonstrably under the control of the Jews. Most of what is seen on cinemas, TV or pop music (MTV etc) convey's ideas and attitudes approved by Jews. What they disapprove of never makes the screen. Need I spell out the social and political significance of who controls the media? I hope not . . .
I can't think of one fault in that post..:D

We are clearly dealing with a determined force with world wide repercussions, the implications of which in the end cannot be ignored. One must also be mindful that there is a clear demarcation line between being an historian on these contentious matters & active politics. For the latter point I'm satisfied that their is no ambigiuity in this divide at all.

[Old Believer]

Or perhaps you don't want to?


Perhaps Not, or maybe I'm just sick of it all…. there is an overriding obsession with all matters appertaining to things Zionist on this forum, and any attempt to blame the worldwide situation on real politic is pounced on as naive and ignorance of the great conspiracy of the great horned rabbi of Zionism.

[Old Believer]

I don't know how many times I have said it but I will repeat it. Here is one example - just one - example of why organised Jewry/Zionism is of concern to us - most of what is called "popular culture" comes from an industry that is demonstrably under the control of the Jews. Most of what is seen on cinemas, TV or pop music (MTV etc) convey's ideas and attitudes approved by Jews. What they disapprove of never makes the screen. Need I spell out the social and political significance of who controls the media? I hope not . . .

Elstner, I wonder if you can clarify a few points for me?

1. There is no doubt that the Jews are dominant over all others in regards media control ,But would you classify them as being 'secular Jews' or Zionist’s?

2.Given the fact that the media in Europe is to a large extent pro-leftwing ideology 'wise' in it’s outlook, and more often than not attacks Israel over it’s position against the Palestinians as being heavy handed and unjust, how can you reconcile that position with your assertion that Jewry/Zionism controls the media?

[JSE]

Elstner, I wonder if you can clarify a few points for me?

1. There is no doubt that the Jews are dominant over all others in regards media control ,But would you classify them as being 'secular Jews' or Zionist’s?The great majority of Jews are Zionists in the sense that they support the zionist state. Anti-Zionism amongst Jews is confined to some leftists (e.g. Finkelstein, Lenni Brenner etc) and some ultra-orthodox who oppose it on theological grounds.


2.Given the fact that the media in Europe is to a large extent pro-leftwing ideology 'wise' in it’s outlook, and more often than not attacks Israel over it’s position against the Palestinians as being heavy handed and unjust, how can you reconcile that position with your assertion that Jewry/Zionism controls the media?Jewish media control is certainly the case for the US where pro-Zionism is universal and unquestioned. The British media is predominantly pro-Zionist. I don't accept your characterisation of the European media, however there is a slightly greater variety of opinions permitted on this side of the ocean than in the US. Criticism of the zionist state such as it is, is always premissed on acceptance of the zionist state and its claims about itself being a western democracy (which it is not) etc. Criticism is 'friendly' in that sense.

[JSE]

Perhaps Not, or maybe I'm just sick of it all…. there is an overriding obsession with all matters appertaining to things Zionist on this forum, and any attempt to blame the worldwide situation on real politic is pounced on as naive and ignorance of the great conspiracy of the great horned rabbi of Zionism.Well I'm not "this forum" so I can only speak for myself. The importance of these topics as I see it is as follows. The founding and preservation of the Zionist state is a priority for international Jewry that is undeniable (why it is important to them is another question). This taeks the form of the cultivation and enforcement of a mythology, called the holocaust, which has various effects which don't need to be spelled out but here are two which are of great consequence - the demonisation of nationalism, and the corruption of public discourse through lie-enforcement. The holomyth is the moral foundation of the Zionist state and keeps the money rolling in from Germany and the US.* Money for the Zionists state itself as well as money for powerful Jewish organisations. Part of this corruption of public discourse is through the propagation and enforcement of an ideology with demonstrably leftist-Jewish roots, PC. PC has the effect of undermining and dividing societies from within. PC fosters feelings of self-hatred amongst Europeans for all sorts of crimes against the Third World, the Jews, women, homosexuals, and so on. PC further undermines confidence in traditional high European culture and civilisation to the point where the every canon of great writers is attacked and denigrated in favour of obscure non-entities who pass the PC test. The most extreme case is Canada where any citizen (x) may be called in to give account of themselves beore the Human Rights Commission simply because some protected minority person complained that they were offended by something x said or did. This tendency, unchecked, will destroy a society.

I don't think I know what you mean by 'real politic'. I would include under such a term the phenomena mentioned above. Its important to note that things like PC and holocaustomania serve the interest of transnational capitalism and its lackeys so we don't need to talk about grand zionist conspiracies to take over the world: the interests of capitalism and international Jewry coincide on these points. In the sense that capitalism is Jewish - and no less an authority than Karl Marx himself has argued this persuasively (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/) - then they have already "taken over": capitalism embodies the Jewish spirit. Grasp this and you have grasped the relevance of such precoccupations on boards such as this.



*'It was because of the death of the six million, according to Rabbi Nurrock, the head of the committee, that “we have been privileged to have our state.”

'The date chosen inaugurates a series of three closely related commemorations. Yom ha-Shoah is soon followed by the Memorial Day for the Fallen in Israel’s Jewish Wars. At sunset on that day, Independence Day celebrations begin, and the traditional mythic pattern of catastrophe and redemption is forcefully reaffirmed.'

(The committee referred to was formed to instate Yom ha-Shoah as a national day.)
Taken from Michael L. Morgan (ed.) A Holocaust Reader: Responses to the Nazi Extermination OUP, NY and Oxford, 2001; 276 - 290