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Liam Ó Loinsigh
28-11-2004, 02:02 AM
Ukraine Parliament Calls Election Invalid


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20041128/ap_on_re_eu/ukraine_elections


By ANNA MELNICHUK, Associated Press Writer


KIEV, Ukraine - Ukraine's parliament has declared the country's disputed presidential election invalid, a legally ineffectual but symbolically potent move boosting opposition hopes for a revote.

Viktor Yushchenko, the opposition candidate who claims he was cheated out of victory in the election last Sunday, is demanding a new vote, and hundreds of thousands of demonstrators have jammed downtown Kiev for nearly a week to support him.

Parliament on Saturday also passed a vote of no-confidence in the Central Election Commission, which declared the Russian-backed Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych winner of the Nov. 21 presidential runoff.

Representatives of both candidates met Saturday under a program worked out a day earlier with European envoys. A Yushchenko representative, Ivan Plyushch, was quoted by the Interfax news agency after the meeting as saying, "It seems to me that the sides have the constructive wish to reach compromise."

The parliament action — approved by 255 of the 429 legislators present — was not legally binding, but it was a clear demonstration of rising dissatisfaction and an indication that Yanukovych, if he becomes president, would face a hostile legislature.

Lawmakers also called for changes in election legislation to be considered next week. Those proposed changes could include a call for parliament to be granted the power to dismiss the elections commission.

Yushchenko said he was seeking a revote on Dec. 12 under the auspices of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. But whether the systematic elections violations that international observers complained of could be addressed in such a short period was in doubt.

Elections commission head Serhiy Kivalov said Saturday he was not opposed to new voting, but said that "before such an emotional decision is taken, a commission must be created to analyze the work of the CEC," according to the Unian news agency.

That position would be unlikely to please the Yushchenko camp, which wants to keep the protests' momentum going.

International support for a new vote was high.

Dutch Foreign Minister Ben Bot, speaking for the European Union, said new elections were the "ideal outcome." Asked if new elections were the only solution, Bot answered: "Yes."

Unian, citing Russia's RIA-Novosti, quoted Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Yakovenko as saying Friday that Moscow regarded a potential revote favorably — an apparently significant retreat from its earlier insistence that the Nov. 21 elections were fair and valid.

Ukraine's parliament has no legal capacity to directly affect the election results. But speaker Volodymyr Lytvyn said, "The most realistic political decision, taking into account the mutual claims of massive violations, is to pronounce the elections invalid."

"The Central Election Commission discredited itself in the first round, undermining public trust in the institution as it is," Lytvyn said.

Outside parliament, more than 7,000 opposition protesters encircled the building, chanting "Yushchenko!" Police looked on from the building's entrances.

Prospects for a resolution of the crisis by a working group made up of four people from each campaign were unclear.

Yanukovych aide Stepan Havrysh, who was to participate on behalf of the prime minister, said he thought it might be possible to reach an agreement within two days.

Havrysh said the prime minister's team would make no further comments until the working group had reached a decision.

Yushchenko has also demanded that the membership of the Central Election Commission be changed, absentee balloting be prohibited, the candidates be given equal access to the media and that international observers participate.

Hundreds of thousands of protesters have massed in the Ukrainian capital all week to protect what they insist was Yushchenko's election victory. Rising temperatures and wet snow on Saturday left their sprawling tent camp along a main avenue and the central Independence Square in a sea of slush.

"I am not hopeful and don't have faith in talks, so I plan to stand on the square until the end," said Ruslan Pokatai, 23, of Sumy. He has already spent five nights in the freezing cold but said he was willing to wait longer if it would mean Yushchenko becomes president.

Tens of thousands of Yanukovych supporters rallied in Donetsk, an industrial city in eastern Ukraine, to call for a referendum to grant the region autonomy. Calls in the region for greater autonomy in the event of a Yushchenko presidency have intensified in recent days.

Yanukovych's Party of Regions scheduled an urgent session in the eastern city of Luhansk for Sunday to discuss autonomy, lawmaker Anatoliy Blyzniuk told protesters gathered there.

"Some 15 million people have said: Yanukovych is our president," he said. "It is not just that (Luhansk) region, it is the entire southeast of the country that wants that (autonomy) option."

Moscow considers this nation of 48 million part of its sphere of influence and a buffer between Russia and NATO's eastern flank. The United States and the European Union have said they cannot accept the results and warned Ukraine of "consequences" in relations with the West.

In addition to driving a wedge between Russia and the West, the crisis has exacerbated the stark divide between the pro-Russian, heavily industrialized eastern half of Ukraine, where Yanukovych draws his support, and the west, Yushchenko's stronghold including the capital Kiev, which is a traditional center of Ukrainian nationalism.

Liam Ó Loinsigh
28-11-2004, 02:22 AM
I have a few points and observations to make on this.

(i) This election was not rigged or tampered with - if any candidate was responsible for tampering, it's Yuschenko. How do we know this? By simply tearing apart the news articles which are so blindly in support of this pro-American gangster, and looking at facts and mannerisms. First of all, what would usually happen if an election was a proven to have been rigged? After an investigation in the courts, the election would be awarded to the second most popular candidate, and the offending candidate disqualified, and imprisoned. Yuschenko is calling for a REVOTE. This doesn't sound like the determined stance of a vote fraud victim... rather someone who lost out on the first occasion, and wants to successfully rig it this time round.

(ii) The very fact that the Bush White House, world famous at rigging elections at home and abroad, are pointing the fingers at the Ukraine, is laughable in the first instance. It's the same case for Brussels, who seem to appoint any crooks to a place in the EU Commission.

(iii) Yuschenko is a hack backed mainly by Washington, and the furore in the Ukraine is just a counter-measure against a stupendously successful plan which has been set in motion by Vladimir Putin and the Chinese - the destruction of Dollar power, and revolution in the world oil industry, to America's detriment. Pick up a newspaper anywhere - visit any Internet news site, and you will see how the Dollar is losing its influence in all corners of the world, and how Putin is angling for oil to be priced in Euros. If this happens, then the U.S. economy will go through the floor, with everything remotely related to that cesspit.

(iii) Causing trouble in the Ukraine also benefits the Poles, who want to become the Germany of eastern Europe. Look at the so-called "mediators" in the current crisis - a group of Eurocrats and the Pole, Lech Walesa and his Jewish Prime Minister Kwasniewski. Very unbiased "mediation" there. Funnily enough, each one went to Yuschenko to pledge their support for him, before trying to "talk sense" into Yanukovich. A very independent approach. What a joke.

Anyone else with other views? All I can say is that when the people voted Yanukovich into power, the Ukraine stood firm as one of Europe's last free nations. Whether he is or is not backed by the Russian President, Putin is a highly patriotic Orthodox Christian, and I believe he may offer salvation for many nationalists across Europe before long.

Pushkin
28-11-2004, 06:55 PM
ITP I think your faith in Putin is very misguided.

Many of the nationalist groups in Ukraine supported Yuschenko.

Personally Im not ethusiastic about either candidate, one ass-kisses the West and other ass-kisses Russia.

Frankly Im annoyed by how foreign powers are using this to advance their own agendas. Sadly thats been the fate of Ukraine, being a pawn for the major powers; and I for one am sick of it!

Heres a debate about the election at Skadi, although it quickly degraded because of Ross:
http://forum.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=27047&page=1&pp=20

Liam Ó Loinsigh
29-11-2004, 12:16 AM
I've read a lot on Putin, and I believe he means well. He is the most subtle and clever politician I've ever seen - unlike others, for the entirely right reasons. Just wait until the truth comes out about Israeli involvement in Beslan.

Yes, most of the nationalists supported Yuschenko in the elections. But then again, most pro-lifers voted for Bush in the U.S. elections, and he's not exactly "pro-life", is he? Murdering millions in Iraq and God knows elsewhere.

Voters can be misled everywhere, Pushkin, and I feel Yuschenko is putting on a facade just to secure the nationalist vote. He is a slave to the West, and will compromise Ukraine's sovereignty by feeding it to the EU. I also feel that Putin would have more of an interest in the survival of Ukraine as a free, independent nation, than Washington or Brussels would have in turning Kiev into one of its slaves.

Pushkin
29-11-2004, 05:07 PM
Yes, most of the nationalists supported Yuschenko in the elections. But then again, most pro-lifers voted for Bush in the U.S. elections, and he's not exactly "pro-life", is he? Murdering millions in Iraq and God knows elsewhere.

Have no argument here!



I also feel that Putin would have more of an interest in the survival of Ukraine as a free, independent nation, than Washington or Brussels would have in turning Kiev into one of its slaves.

You're not aquainted very well with Russo-Ukrainian relations are you? We know full well what Putin or even Russia in general wants from Ukraine, and its not a free independent nation. And we learned that the hard way, Russia wants to fool us into another Treaty of Pereyaslav.